NBA 360直播吧 2023-12-16 15:00:50
近日，Reddit论坛出现一篇帖子，楼主提问“20多岁那个时期的詹姆斯当年有多强，和如今的老詹比又如何？”。此问一出，立刻触发了美网友的“詹吹”被动技能。
小编整理了部分美网友评论，供吧友们一起讨论。
[–]CelticsComfortableDino 23 points 6 days ago
sigh
First of all, young fans REALLY need to understand that LeBron now isnt CLOSE to how good he was in Miami, despite what the numbers tell you.
The numbers tell you he is still in his prime, as good as ever. But anyone old enough to remember will tell you that LeBron is absolutely past his prime. Because we remember how good he was.
Now, that we acknowledge the context, the superior spacing today, and the offensive generous NBA of today...how was LeBron in his 20s?
No one in the NBA today touches his athleticism. And in terms of athletic/physical ability, you had him, MJ, Shaq and everyone else.
You see Giannis drive the way he does at 6'11 240? LeBron was just like that, at 6'9 245. LeBron driving to the hoop was a lot like Giannis driving today, but with more gravity.
Using today's standards... picture this.
A smaller Giannis with LeBron's jump shooting (average) with more athleticism and a better drive and kick game.. and all NBA defense. He was NOT the game manager/playmaker he was later in his career. He was moreso a master of drive and kick/hit open players.
It was his second stint in Cleveland when he really became in on court coach.
The only player you take over 20s LeBron is peak MJ.. you can put peak Shaq right there with them in dominance.
凯尔特人球迷：哎…这么跟你们说吧…首先，现在的小孩子必须要明白一点，如今的老詹和当年的热火詹已是今非昔比了…别看老詹如今的数据还不赖啊…从他现在的数据上看，你可能会觉得老詹貌似仍处于巅峰期，雄风犹在啊~但如果你去问任何一个阅历足够丰富的老球迷，他们都会跟你们说，如今的老詹已经彻彻底底地过巅峰期了，因为只有他们知道，当年那个年轻的詹姆斯是有多么地强大！
再来看看，我们现在又是在怎样的一个大环境之下讨论这个话题的？如今的联盟球场空间被拉开得超级大，而且进攻盛行！所以在这样的背景下，我们再来看看20多岁的詹姆斯有多强大吧！
当今联盟的球员之中，没有任何一个人能在身体素质上和当年的詹姆斯相匹敌！纵观联盟历史，在球员身体素质的分类上，可以把古今所有的球员分成两类，一类是乔丹、詹姆斯和奥尼尔三个人，另一类是除了这仨以外的所有人！
现在的字母哥带着2.11米、109公斤的身体打球，而当年的詹姆斯是2.06米、111公斤！他当年突破的方式和如今的字母哥非常相似，但是体重却更加巨大！如果拿当今联盟的防守去应对当年的詹姆斯？脑子里有画面了没？
一个体型稍微小一号的字母哥，拥有詹姆斯的平均投射能力，配上更强的运动能力、突破和突分能力，再加上最佳防守阵容水平的防守能力，这就是当年的詹姆斯！
当年的詹姆斯还没有变成像如今的老詹一样担任球场指挥官的角色，他更像是一只拥有超凡突破和突分能力的神兽！在骑士2.0时期，詹姆斯才真正完成了向球场教练型球员的转变。
历史上比20多岁詹姆斯强的，只有一个人，那就是巅峰乔丹！如果考虑球场统治力的话，我们也可以把奥尼尔放进来！
[–]PistonsWatsTatorsPrecious 171 points 6 days ago
As a pistons fan, thinking about it gives me nightmares
活塞球迷：作为活塞球迷，只消稍微回忆一下当年的詹姆斯，我晚上就会做噩梦…
注：2007年东部决赛天王山之战，骑士双加时战胜活塞，詹姆斯爆砍48分9篮板7助攻，包办了球队最后30分中的29分，其中包括末节+双加时连得25分，以及一记准绝杀上篮。
2007年东决天王山之战，詹姆斯准绝杀上篮
[–]Bourbon_Buckeye 11 points 6 days ago
That was over 16 years ago! But some traumas last a lifetime—I feel for you
球迷：虽然事情已经过去16年之久了，但是它造成的精神创伤会让你疼一辈子！我懂你，楼上的兄弟！
[–]SpursForneauCosmique 6 points 6 days ago
I'll never forget that game against the Pistons. It was truly incredible. Probably the greatest 1 man show I've ever seen in an nba game against one of the best defenses
马刺球迷：我永远都忘不了詹姆斯对阵活塞的那场比赛，真的太不可思议了！那可能是我看过的在拥有联盟历史一等一防守的球队面前所奉献的最伟大个人秀！没有之一！
[–]Toronto Huskiessllegal 34 points 6 days ago
Raptors fan here -- I understand
猛龙球迷：我是猛龙球迷，我也感同身受！
注：从2015-16赛季开始，猛龙开始与詹姆斯领军的骑士在季后赛交火，至此一共交手3次，猛龙只赢了2场，两次都是4-0横扫。一直到2018年莱昂纳德加盟，“垃圾兄弟”散伙，詹姆斯西游，猛龙才收获了队史首冠。
[–]SignificantOnion3054 12 points 6 days ago
Ah yes the Lebronto Raptors
球迷：啊…差点把你们勒布伦多猛龙队给忘了~~
[–]dealerofbananas 243 points 6 days ago
A LeBron drive was the best play in basketball.
球迷：“詹姆斯推土机突破”曾经是篮球界最强的武器！
[–]EggsBenny23 70 points 6 days ago
*Lebron transition, but his drive in the half court was second lol
球迷：“詹姆斯转换进攻”才是最强的，半场突破排在第二，哈哈哈！！
[–]ThunderRagnar_OK 53 points 6 days ago
almost literally unstoppable. people would grab him in bear hugs and he'd still power out of it with ease and score
雷霆球迷：当年詹姆斯的突破几乎是防不住的，哪怕被别人熊抱着拖住，他也能轻易地暴起得分！
[–]tledner[S] 18 points 6 days ago
Watching the footage ive seen yeah i mean your not stopping that, i imagine it took some nuts to get in his way
球迷：看着那些集锦，我心想你根本防不住那种进攻，你要是敢挡在他的进攻路线上，身上得掉不少零件儿！
[–]Wizardsdriatic 19 points 6 days ago
Jason Terry got caught in one of the fast breaks.
He died on impact.
奇才球迷：杰森-特里曾经在一次詹姆斯的快攻中被扣翻，不幸重伤不治~~
[–]LakersBossButterBoobs 160 points 6 days ago
He was noticeably more athletic and had much more stamina. Imagine someone his size flying through the air like Ja Morant while also capable of driving to the rim like a stronger Giannis.
湖人球迷：当年的詹姆斯在运动能力和体能上都肉眼可见得更加强！想象下，以他那样的体型，却能像莫兰特一样进行空中作业，同时拥有比字母哥更强的突破攻框能力！
[–]Heatbraddeus 89 points 6 days ago
2023 Bron = Tank, stronger than everyone else and deliberate in his game
2006 Bron = McLaren 720S, stronger, faster, and higher jumper than everyone else, decided what he would do halfway up
热火球迷：2023年的老詹像一辆稳重的坦克车，比每个人都强壮的同时，还能从容地阅读比赛。而2006年的詹姆斯像超跑迈凯伦720S，比所有人都更强壮、更快、跳得更高，飞在空中做决策！
[–]Heatusedtosmokepot 12 points 6 days ago
The chase down blocks☠️. I wouldn’t attempt a lay in if prime bron was in the city let alone the gym.
热火球迷：还有那些追帽啊☠️！如果知道巅峰詹在我家附近出没，我恐怕连出去上个篮的胆子都没有，更别说去球馆打球了…
[–]KnickedUp 19 points 6 days ago
2013 Bron is when fire and ice meet. His bball mind caught up with his athleticism
尼克斯球迷：2014年的詹姆斯在体内冰火交融，修成正果，那年他的篮球智商终于追上了他顶级的运动能力，达到了完美匹配！
[–]CelticsComfortableDino 49 points 6 days ago
Misconception.
His basketball mind really became different 2nd Cleveland stint and I will die on this hill.
LeBron mastered his gravity and the drive and kick game in Miami, no question.
But it wasn't until second Cleveland stint when he shifted from all time great drive and kick player, to all time great game manager
LeBron became a true point guard in his second stint Cleveland run. There's a difference here, and while he wasn't as GOOD as he was in Miami, he absolutely was at his best, IQ was, in his second stint Cleveland.
凯尔特人球迷：错了~詹姆斯真正修成正果，是在骑士2.0时期，我为这个观点负责！
在热火时期，他的牵制力、突破以及分球能力达到了大师级别，这个确实毫无疑问！但是直到骑士2.0时期，他才终于从历史级别的突破分球高手进化成为历史级别的球场指挥家！
在骑士2.0时期，詹姆斯化身成了一名真正的控球后卫！不同的是，虽然没有热火时期“那么强”了，然而他进化到了最佳版本，篮球智商达到了巅峰！
[–]Wizardsdriatic 1 point 6 days ago
Yep 100% agreed.
His IQ and feel for the game was like seeing a coach out there. He played lighter too, not as muscular as Miami lebron but a leaner player.
Idk if can say that was his best but at that point he knew the entire eastern conference by heart. So he was always making the best passes, was always at the right place.
The only thing that wasn't as great, was his defense.
奇才球迷：没错！100%同意！从詹姆斯当时的篮球智商以及对比赛的感觉来看，就像是一个教练在场上打球一样！他打得没那么用力了，不再像在热火时期那样那么暴力，变成了一个效率更高的球员！称那个时期（骑士2.0）的詹姆斯达到了他的最佳版本不知道是否合适，不过到了那个时期，他对整个东部联盟已经熟门熟路了，所以他传球总能恰到好处，而且总能出现在正确的位置上！唯一美中不足的是，那个时期他的防守有点下滑。
[–]NBArascaltippinglmao 31 points 6 days ago
He was fast as fuck. Basically a 6'8" prime Westbrook who is the best rim finisher of all time and could guard almost anyone.
球迷：当年的詹姆斯速度快得要死！简直就是2.05米高的威少，配上历史最强近筐终结能力，还具备几乎能防任何人的防守能力！
[–][MIL] Darvin HamRecalcitrantDuck 29 points 6 days ago
Yeah basically take MVP Russ, give him 5 extra inches and make him a little better at everything and make every single layup go in
雄鹿球迷：是的，当年的詹姆斯，基本上就是作出如下改良的MVP版本威少！
1. 身高再加13公分
2. 每一项技能的能力值再调高一点
3. 而且每个上篮都能上进去的
[–]jimmysnuka4u 28 points 6 days ago
Not to mention better ball iq
球迷：你怎么忘了把篮球智商给加上去了！！！
[–]seavirus 33 points 6 days ago
If you played as Lebron in nba 2k13 and hold the drive and accelerate towards the rim it would automatically dunk and 1 lmaooo
球迷：如果你在2K13中用詹姆斯的话，只要按住手柄上的加速键往篮下冲，最后肯定以暴扣2+1收尾！哈哈哈哈！！！！
[–]76ersrhinocodon_typus 14 points 6 days ago
And it wasn’t even that unrealistic
76人球迷：尽管游戏里面的詹姆斯看上去已经这么玩赖了，你也都不会说出 “这游戏做得太假了” 这句话 …
[–]panashechd 23 points 6 days ago
I’d watch his highlights from 07-09 12-14 and 16-18. As much as I hate to say it as a Lebron fan but his agility and speed were noticeably better during those phases. He plays at a MUCH slower pace now. Back then he used to drive, meet 3 people at the rim, contort his body and still make tough layups. He doesn’t do that nearly as much. Back then he was driving regardless of who was in front of him. It worked out great until around 11-13 when he needed to adopt a post game. That’s when you slowly started to see the Lebron we have today.
Also most of the layups you see him make today, would end in a dunk back in 06-08. But that isn’t feasible long term and he’s taking care of his body by choosing when be aggressive and exert more energy. In contrary to what many people believe, I think he could easily drive and dunk on anyone today. Last season he did it on JJJ who was damn near DPOY. It’s not a matter of can he, it’s a matter of he doesn’t need to. People see him playing out his mind this season and wonder “how is he doing that?” He was always THIS good. Even in 21, 22 and 23. But only Lakers fans know because we watch all the games
球迷：我喜欢看詹姆斯07-09、12-14、16-18三个时期的比赛集锦。虽然作为詹蜜，我讨厌这么说，但是那三个时期的詹姆斯，在敏捷度和速度上都是肉眼可见的更加出色！现在的老詹，打球的节奏慢了非常多了…那个时候，他经常突破，飞起来面对三个人的防守，拧着身体，依然可以把高难度的篮给上进去！现在的老詹几乎不这么玩儿了…当年不管是谁防他，他都会突你没商量！这种进攻方式百试不厌，直到大概11-13年期间，他开始需要在赛后进行身体恢复，从那个时候开始，他开始慢慢的变成了现在老詹的样子。如今老詹的大部分上篮，要是放在06-08那些年，全都会以暴扣收尾！不过那样打球不太可持续，如今他需要通过选择性释放攻击性和能量来保护自己的身体！
我和很多人的观点不太一样，我认为现在的老詹仍然可以很轻松地突破后在别人头上完成扣篮！上赛季老詹还隔扣了小贾伦-杰克逊呢，后者可是他娘的最佳防守球员啊！不是老詹做不到，而是他没必要去做！
大家看到老詹今年打得这么出色，都在想 “他是怎么做到的？” 然而其实他一直都是这么出色的啊，哪怕是到了生涯第21、22、23个赛季！但也就是湖人球迷知道这一点，因为我们把每一场比赛都看了下来！
老詹隔扣小贾伦-杰克逊
[–]AndreiOT89 24 points 6 days ago
A god of basketball, but the best version of Lebron ever is 2018.
Man had like four primes though. Each time he reinvented his game while keeping his other skills.
2007-2010 was his first prime. An athletic freak who could get to the rim at will. Carried an extremely weak supporting cast to the NBA finals. Won MVP
2010-2014 second prime. 2x MVP, 2x FMVP, 4 finals. The took his game to another level adding great strength to his arsenal and started shooting better. His 2012 playoff run is legendary.
2015-2018 third prime. Best overall player ever. He could score, defend, rebound and play the PG position. Still extremely athletic, great defender, his shot improved again, he started being great in the post. Made 4 finals, beat the 73-9 Warriors down 3-1. He was truly unguardable by anybody in any era. His best version was 2018. 2018 Lebron is the best prime ever.
2019-2020 4th prime. Won a championship with the Lakers, another finals MvP. His athleticism slughtly declined and his defense as well but he became the best PG in the NBa while still scoring 28 ppg while also leading the league in assists. Insane
球迷：当年的詹姆斯是天降神明，但是最佳版本的詹姆斯，是在2018年！这个男人拥有四个不同的巅峰期，每一个时期他都会重塑他的比赛方式，同时保留自己所有的篮球技巧！
2007-2010是第一个巅峰期，当时的他是一只运动能力非人的怪物，能随心所欲地攻击篮筐，带着一帮臭跑龙套的冲进了总决赛，拿到了一次MVP。
2010-2014是第二个巅峰期，拿到2次MVP，2次FMVP，四进总决赛。这个时期，他的比赛能力上升到了一个新的高度，并在自己的武器库里面增加了新的杀手锏，投射能力开始变强了。2012年的季候赛之旅是传世之作！
2015-2018是第三个巅峰期，那个时期的詹姆斯是史上最全面的球员，得分、防守、篮板一把抓，还能扮演控卫的角色！而且运动能力仍然极其出色，是个超强的防守者，同时投射能力得到了进一步的提升，开发出了很强的低位进攻能力。这段时期，他四进总决赛，总决赛1-3落后的情况下逆转击败73-9勇士！联盟历史上任何时期的任何一个球员都防不住这个时期的詹姆斯。2018年是他的最强版本，2018年的詹姆斯是史上最强的巅峰球员版本！
2019-2020是第四个巅峰期，带领湖人赢得一个总冠军，并再次荣膺FMVP。他的运动能力和防守出现了轻微的下滑，但是变身成为联盟最强控卫，场均能得28分的同时，场均助攻上还能领跑联盟，简直是疯狂！
[–]floatersforalgernon 3 points 6 days ago
I mean he played almost every minute every night during his 2018 ECF run and still got up to drop 51 points against the best team of all time. His stamina in his 34th age year was still above and beyond any mortal being.
球迷：2018年东部决赛，詹姆斯几乎每个晚上都打满全场，面对史上最强球队（73-9勇士），仍然能砍下51分（总决赛G1）！哪怕是到了34岁，他的体能仍然不是任何一个肉身凡胎能比得过的啊~~
[–]Cavalierswhitlinger 2 points 6 days ago*
I've got an interesting answer for ya:
From 2006 - 2018 LeBron won 156 playoff games (97 in CLE / 59 in MIA)
BOS 78 wins, ATL 38 wins, CHI 37 wins, IND 36 wins, ORL 31 wins, DET 30 wins, MIA (w/o Bron) 28 wins, WAS 25 wins, TOR 24 wins, BRK 21 wins, PHI 17 wins, MIL 11 wins, NYK 7 wins, CHO 3 wins, CLE (w/o Bron) 0 wins.
That amounts to 28.78% (156/542) of all possible Eastern Conference playoff games in that stretch.
He RULED.
Also - he won 18 Finals games in this stretch - MIA won 4, ORL won 1, and that's it.
骑士队球迷：我这儿有个非常有趣的答案，供大家参考：
2006-2018年期间，詹姆斯赢了156场季后赛（97场在骑士，59场在热火）
这期间，东部其他球队的季后赛战绩：凯尔特人赢了78场、老鹰赢了38场、公牛赢了37场，步行者赢了36场、魔术赢了31场、活塞赢了30场、热火（无詹）赢了28场、奇才赢了25场、猛龙赢了24场、篮网赢了21场、76人赢了17场、雄鹿赢了11场、尼克斯赢了7场、黄蜂赢了3场、骑士（无詹）一场没赢。
那些年詹姆斯的季后赛胜场数，占了整个东部联盟的28.78%！赤裸裸的统治！！
而且，这期间他赢了18场总决赛，作为比较，东部其他球队：热火（无詹）赢了4场、魔术赢了1场，没了…
[–]DoctorRoeJogan 1 point 5 days ago
Look up “Lebron with no regard for human life” and that will tell you all you need to know about what bron was
球迷：问这个问题就是多余，你们直接去网上搜“詹姆斯惨无人道集锦”，看完你就知道他当年有多强了！
来源：Reddit
编译：河浪端
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